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Conservative First cycle input?

#1
Hello everyone,

Im finally ready to start my first cycle. I've been itching to start since I was 18 but decided that I'd wait until I was 24. I just turned 24 and am now deciding on my first cycle. I definitely want to start small and conservative as I can always go up and plan to do this for many years to come. I've been doing plenty of research for years and have come across interesting article that have left me questioning the standard 500mg a week test e cycle.

Seeing how a TRT dose is about 100mg/week and is meant to bring someone up to normal levels why is 500mg the recommended dose as it will bring you up to 5x the normal test levels. I'm planning on 300-350mg/week to start Test-E. I'm pretty confident this should give good results as its still 3x the normal amount of testosterone but the fact that everywhere you look 500mg is recommended is throwing me off. Am I missing something or is 300ish ok?

Secondly There was a study done by the University of California for HIV patients where patients had the same results from 20mg of anavar daily and 100mg test week as patients taking 600mg test a week. So basically they achieved the same results and their patients showed less suppression and less side effects. It sounds like this would be the safest option. Has anybody ran or know of anybody that's ran a similar cycle? Would this be a recommended option?

STUDY---> https://www.ergo-log.com/oxandrolonetestosterone.html

ALso im seeing two schools of thoughts regarding AI (Arimidex) during cycle. One, use no matter what and two, only of side effects or blood work is off? I'd like put the least amount of drugs/chemical in my body and AI have been shown to be liver toxic but I don't want to risk gyno ect.. either, seeing how it will be a conservative dose should I still just use it anyways?

Lastly would HCG be necessary on a conservative cycle like this. HCG is something that I have found a lot of conflicting information on so I'm rather confused on this one? And I'd like to run Nolvadex as its has less side than Clomid for pct. Would I also scale down the dosage here too or what would that look like?

I'm sorry for the long post but I this isn't a game to me and I want to be as safe as possible. Any input, even partial helps and is very appreciated. Hopefully this will also be a good reference for others.

Thanks!
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#2
First, you're thinking way too black and white. It isn't as simple as "100 mg is a TRT dose" for example, 100 mg puts me a bit over 1000 ng/dL, but 200 mg (double that) puts my father in the 700s. Double the dose, significantly lower result.

Second, the multiplier isn't straight across the board. For example, just because 100 mg = 1000 ng/dl for me, does not mean that 200 mg = 2000 ng/dl for me as well, in fact, that's almost never the case and the multiplier tends to go down as the dose goes up.

Third, yes, 300-350mg is a great first cycle as is test and anavar.

Fourth, remember to take all "studies" with a grain of salt and don't just interpret one singular conclusion as fact. There is very often conflicting and even contradicting data/studies out there.

Fifth, in theory not using AI is the ideal case. In practice for some it is near unavoidable if you want to use above a TRT dose of test. Ideally you would get labs done on week 3-4 to determine whether or not you need AI and roughly how much of it/how often.

Sixth, hCG necessary? No, but it's a good idea.

Can't help with the PCT stuff, sorry (never done it).

All the best broski!
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#3
Wait what? That link you posted is confusing... in the opening paragraph it states how a 20 week 600mg test cycle yielded an 8 kg extra fat free mass, but it’s possible to make the same gains with an 8 week cycle of either 100mg Test E/week or 20mg of Anavar ED.

Doesn’t it depend on the individual and their current body composition? Keep in mind this 8 week study was done with 22 HIV patients.

You’ll want to research PCT more. As far as I know side effects of Clomid are worse when you take higher doses, but that’s why some people advocate for a low of Clomid in combination with Nolva for PCT. You might as well use HCG, it’s cheap and will most likely make it easier when you get to PCT. You’ll want to look up protocols but don’t use it during your PCT. Use it towards the end of your cycle or from the beginning (I’ve read some people do that as well).

Also you might want to look into Aromasin over Arimidex.
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#4
Yeah the diminishing returns is a great point. You're definitely right about the contradicting studies out there which has been very confusing for me especially because it seems as time goes on the recommended protocols change and even contradict past protocols. Especially concerning PCTS. I'll probably just go based off my blood work for the AI. I really appreciate the input and honestly this whole forum.

Mike I know the study was worded kinda weird but I believe what they were stating is that for production of lean muscle mass with 600mg Test was equivalent to 100mg test e + 20mg anavar. I definitely took it with a grain of salt as it was done in 1999 and with HIV patients, which is why I was asking if anybody had done a similar cycle. Thank you for the input on the PCT and especially the aromasin now that i've looked into it.
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#5
That study is comparing the effect of 100mg of test vs. 100mg of test + 20mg/day of anavar. The group using test + anavar made more gains than the group using test alone. From those results, they conclude that using 600mg per week of test or other aas is not necessary.

That whole thing seems bat crap silly. First, they conclude 100mg/week is less effective than 240mg/week. Really? No kidding? Then to compare the results of their participants and make direct comparison to another study's participants seems pretty silly. Too many variables that can affect the results.

Anyways, 300mg/wk of test with or without anavar is a good first cycle. You don't need 500mg/wk. It's just a general recommendation. Many guys find out after more experience they prefer lower amounts of test + another drug(s) instead of higher test. Others really thrive on a lot of test. That you'll need to determine for yourself with experience.
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