TRT/cruise idea

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  • I’ve seen some studies showing Nolva or Clomid alone can raise test levels big time while also potentially having some other positive side effects. An article on T-nation even suggested clomid is as effective as TRT Test doses.

    If someone is looking to get to high “natural” levels, 1000ish, what are the drawbacks to using a SERM? Not as effective as Test?

    And why wouldn’t someone use a SERM during a cycle? It seems people only use it for PCT.

    Anti-aging “doctors” would likely have an answer to this, but I don’t know if I can trust someone who is financially incentivized to sell me more.

    So… would ~150mg/test/wk and 20mg Nolva ED be a reasonable plan? I’ve had 150mg/test/wk, ~500-1000iu/HCG/wk, and occasional Arimidex suggested, but https://old.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct#wiki_serms.3A_nolvadex.2C_clomid.2C_toremifene.2C_.26amp.3B_raloxifene makes the Test and Nolva plan seem much better. Theoretically, less suppression when stopping??

    Thanks for any input!

  • [quote=“sierrakilo” pid=‘72761’ dateline=‘1571780212’]
    I’ve seen some studies showing Nolva or Clomid alone can raise test levels big time while also potentially having some other positive side effects. An article on T-nation even suggested clomid is as effective as TRT Test doses.

    If someone is looking to get to high “natural” levels, 1000ish, what are the drawbacks to using a SERM? Not as effective as Test?

    And why wouldn’t someone use a SERM during a cycle? It seems people only use it for PCT.

    Anti-aging “doctors” would likely have an answer to this, but I don’t know if I can trust someone who is financially incentivized to sell me more.

    So… would ~150mg/test/wk and 20mg Nolva ED be a reasonable plan? I’ve had 150mg/test/wk, ~500-1000iu/HCG/wk, and occasional Arimidex suggested, but https://old.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/thecycle/pct#wiki_serms.3A_nolvadex.2C_clomid.2C_toremifene.2C_.26amp.3B_raloxifene makes the Test and Nolva plan seem much better. Theoretically, less suppression when stopping??

    Thanks for any input!
    [/quote]

    If someone really needs testosterone then they should take test.

    Clomid has a long list of side effects, mostly if makes you feel like shit. I’ve never seen anyone say it made them feel fantastic. I took it for three weeks and felt suicidal.

    Nolva isn’t as bad and it does raise your LH, however if your testicles aren’t working that well, it really doesn’t matter how much LH you present to them, they’re just gonna putter along.

    Anti-estrogens are there to reduce the side effects of elevated estrogen, however they also drag you down if you ask me. Usually two to three days after taking an aromasin(25mg) I feel off in the gym, I don’t feel as strong, sometimes I feel a little worn down and sometimes even a little depressed. This was only taken because the ankles were swelling, which is almost always a sign of my E2 going up.

    If someone really needs test, they are suffering symptoms we commonly see from low testosterone, then most of the smarter doctors will microdose their patients which is a very simple protocol.

    60-65mg every 72 hrs of test cyp would give you around 18mg peak and 12mg trough values. Considering a young man say 25 years old with good testosterone will produce anywhere from 8mg to 13mg/day. So this should keep a man in a safe range where he has few if any sides and doesn’t need an A.I.

    Bottom line SERMs and AI aren’t the answer to TRT.

  • Thanks @“Dexter”

    Just curious about this stuff and it’s hard to find reliable info but i want to gather as much as possible before starting

  • Another question… who thinks it would be better (in terms of performance benefits AND managing sides) to do a bigger cycle of ~500/test/wk then cruise or PCT versus just TRT?

  • [quote=“sierrakilo” pid=‘72836’ dateline=‘1571841334’]
    Another question… who thinks it would be better (in terms of performance benefits AND managing sides) to do a bigger cycle of ~500/test/wk then cruise or PCT versus just TRT?
    [/quote]

    Quality tissue comes with time. If your goal is to give yourself the best environment to grow while mitigating sides, you can absolutely do it on just average levels of test. The shit is powerful, and if you’re not experiencing any sides you can hone yourself in and make your progress that much more dialed in and effective.

    That being said, you’ll have infinitely better results in the time span running a full cycle. I personally, would never touch gear with the idea of PCTing, BnC for life. As mentioned above, SERMS give you their own litany of side effects.

    In all honesty, a large majority of people would benefit from running less test over longer periods of time than the multiple compounds they want to run. Half of the issues regarding improper cycle practices wouldn’t exist imo. Though a lot of people just want fast gains so they’ll run straight to harsher compounds thinking they’ll have more success than they could otherwise, solely because they aren’t thinking about the game for the long run. It’s a little different if you’re competing, but the average guy can work miles off of limited gear and consistency.

  • [quote=“sierrakilo” pid=‘72836’ dateline=‘1571841334’]
    Another question… who thinks it would be better (in terms of performance benefits AND managing sides) to do a bigger cycle of ~500/test/wk then cruise or PCT versus just TRT?
    [/quote]

    IMO you’re better off with a more standard protocol going with 200-250mg/week until you feel great, watch for symptoms and if you don’t have any stay at that dose.

    That will give you the hormone you need to feel strong and build strength.

    The key here is to avoid side effects by dosing more frequently with lower doses.

    You gotta run some labs before you start, make sure you get a PSA and that it’s low normal, run another PSA 3 months after you start to be safe. Run a CBC, if you have a hematocrit that is on the higher end of normal, donate a unit of blood before you start your cycle. Most steroids cause an increase in red cell production, some unlucky guys are genetically more responsive to this and can reach dangerous levels quickly, so either get used to donating blood up to every 56 days or get a cbc ran every two months until you know how you respond.

    Those two things are the most dangerous aspects of what we do, you take care of those and keep and eye on your blood pressure and you’ll fine.

  • @“superawesomename”

    Your quote below! Teach me obi wan kenobi… Seriously.

    40 y/o done having kids. Completed 2 cycles thus far, both Test only (500/wk and 550/week) Currently PCTing but want to swap to BnC for the Long haul. No plans to ever compete, just want to always look good and continue being a beast at the gym.

    Give me a 2 year plan obi wan kenobi…

    .“In all honesty, a large majority of people would benefit from running less test over longer periods of time than the multiple compounds they want to run. Half of the issues regarding improper cycle practices wouldn’t exist imo. Though a lot of people just want fast gains so they’ll run straight to harsher compounds thinking they’ll have more success than they could otherwise, solely because they aren’t thinking about the game for the long run. It’s a little different if you’re competing, but the average guy can work miles off of limited gear and consistency.”

  • @“Some.Dude.Again” ultimately it’s up to your individual response to compounds and training, risk:reward preferences, and goals. No one can really make those decisions for you, but can help educate you. What I will say is, when I feel I’ve reached my goal physique, I’ll be sticking to low-moderate doses of test/mast with some GH.

  • [quote=“superawesomename” pid=‘73242’ dateline=‘1572251282’]
    @“Some.Dude.Again” ultimately it’s up to your individual response to compounds and training, risk:reward preferences, and goals. No one can really make those decisions for you, but can help educate you. What I will say is, when I feel I’ve reached my goal physique, I’ll be sticking to low-moderate doses of test/mast with some GH.
    [/quote]

    Gahhhhhh! This feels like a “I just want to be friends” response! Ha! All good. Thanks bro for responding!!

  • I can attest to cruising rather than PCT but I do think the benefit of PCT after your first cycle is huge. Especially if you’re interested in natural levels, I’d suggest you cycle, PCT and then get bloodwork a month or two later. Sometimes all it takes is a HPTA reset to get your body back on track, which would accomplish your goal without further injections.

    Then again you could just inject a TRT dose every week for the rest of your life like many of us. Depends on your priorities.

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