Have any of you gone vegan/vegetarian?

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  • Just watched a documentary the other night called “The Game Changers”. It focuses on athletes switching over to plant based diets. Have any of you done this and how has it affected your gains and blood work?

  • I watched it too. Most of them seem like endurance/distant athletes. When it comes to gains I didn’t see much of anything.

  • I was a vegan for a few years about a decade ago after I quit competing from cycling.

    When I was a competitive cyclist I wasn’t a vegan, I actually consumed about 4000-5000 calories a day and after races I would consume close to 8000 calories and even more.

    Endurance athletes can be vegan, but I never met any. After races we would eat burgers, potato salad, pies, meat covered pizza, pasta dishes drowning in meat, ice cream bars and anything we could get our hands on. After daily training rides I’d have a steak waiting for me and lots of carbs. I don’t think anyone eats as much as a cyclist, even body builders probably couldn’t touch the amount of food consumed after a 130 mile race with your heart rate at 180 to 200bpm.

    For some, vegan diets are more of a religion then anything else, and while I certainly don’t agree with how farm animals are treated and would like to see it changed. The fact is long term vegan diets come up short in nutrients, that’s why I think it would be smart to go the route of fish, eggs in a way that is probably more humane then slaughtering fury animals with four legs that obviously experience terror and pain when led to the slaughter.

    I will say this, those that eat less meat, eat lots of greens, veggies, fruits and stay away from processed foods, they age slower. I have a friend that was raised by a vegan family and the dude is in his mid 40s and could pass for 28 and I lift with him a few days a week, I’m stronger then him, but he’s not on gear and if he was he could probably kick my ass with ease.

  • Paid propaganda. Human beings are not herbivores.

  • [quote=“ForgotMuhName” pid=‘73061’ dateline=‘1572018389’]
    Paid propaganda. Human beings are not herbivores.
    [/quote]

    There’s paid propaganda on both fronts. I would say the meat and diary organizations are far more involved in propaganda and advertising then vegans, only because there’s a huge budget. Vegans have the moral high ground in this case, but the question is can man find a middle path where you can consume animals that are well treated and put down humanely, something that will eventually have to happen.

    The real problem that society is going to have to deal with is the treatment of animals, like it or not these aren’t solitary men out in the woods hunting to live, it’s a consumer industrial product that produces inner conflict with anyone that sees animals loaded into a truck sent to slaughter.

    There’s no doubt that those that work in slaughter houses don’t last very long, they often suffer mental problems. You’re not gonna kill a hundred cows a day and think this is normal if you aren’t a psychopath.

    There’s a percentage of our population that gets off on cruelty, not just from their diet, but the way they act in every aspect of their lives. I’ve watched people that don’t kill the animal first, they literally hold the animal down and skin it while they are alive.

    We have to deal with the cruelty aspect of some people, we are taught to accept that certain people act this way and should be allowed to continue without interference, it’s almost like we’ve been taught to be polite in front of what a normal person would consider sadistic.

    Vegans know nutrition, they know how to keep themselves healthy, calorie restriction is in fact good for you as long as you get your micro-nutrients. Most of the vegans of the past really didn’t know what they were doing, they ate mono diets and suffered all sorts of deficiencies, but today’s skinny in shape vegan that optimizes their nutrition and often spends a fortune doing it will be just fine, they just won’t look like Ronnie Coleman, then again Ronnie is basically a cripple these days.

  • [quote=“Dexter” pid=‘73065’ dateline=‘1572019766’]
    [quote=“ForgotMuhName” pid=‘73061’ dateline=‘1572018389’]
    Paid propaganda. Human beings are not herbivores.
    [/quote]

    There’s paid propaganda on both fronts. I would say the meat and diary organizations are far more involved in propaganda and advertising then vegans, only because there’s a huge budget. Vegans have the moral high ground in this case, but the question is can man find a middle path where you can consume animals that are well treated and put down humanely, something that will eventually have to happen.

    The real problem that society is going to have to deal with is the treatment of animals, like it or not these aren’t solitary men out in the woods hunting to live, it’s a consumer industrial product that produces inner conflict with anyone that sees animals loaded into a truck sent to slaughter.

    There’s no doubt that those that work in slaughter houses don’t last very long, they often suffer mental problems. You’re not gonna kill a hundred cows a day and think this is normal if you aren’t a psychopath.

    There’s a percentage of our population that gets off on cruelty, not just from their diet, but the way they act in every aspect of their lives. I’ve watched people that don’t kill the animal first, they literally hold the animal down and skin it while they are alive.

    We have to deal with the cruelty aspect of some people, we are taught to accept that certain people act this way and should be allowed to continue without interference, it’s almost like we’ve been taught to be polite in front of what a normal person would consider sadistic.

    Vegans know nutrition, they know how to keep themselves healthy, calorie restriction is in fact good for you as long as you get your micro-nutrients. Most of the vegans of the past really didn’t know what they were doing, they ate mono diets and suffered all sorts of deficiencies, but today’s skinny in shape vegan that optimizes their nutrition and often spends a fortune doing it will be just fine, they just won’t look like Ronnie Coleman, then again Ronnie is basically a cripple these days.
    [/quote]

    Ronnie isn’t a cripple for his diet though, it’s because of the way he trained lol.

    Just wanted to point that out.

  • [quote=“thallandchill” pid=‘73066’ dateline=‘1572019972’]

    Ronnie isn’t a cripple for his diet though, it’s because of the way he trained lol.

    Just wanted to point that out.
    [/quote]

    Yeah it’s more of problem of putting far too much weight on his back destroying his spine.

    Self preservation is probably apart of the vegan/vegi diet as well. Bodybuilding culture often goes the opposite direction.

  • [quote=“Dexter” pid=‘73068’ dateline=‘1572020725’]
    [quote=“thallandchill” pid=‘73066’ dateline=‘1572019972’]

    Ronnie isn’t a cripple for his diet though, it’s because of the way he trained lol.

    Just wanted to point that out.
    [/quote]

    Yeah it’s more of problem of putting far too much weight on his back destroying his spine.

    Self preservation is probably apart of the vegan/vegi diet as well. Bodybuilding culture often goes the opposite direction.
    [/quote]

    I’m more interested in the self preservation aspect. I’d be fine staying around 225 with perfect blood markers. I’m curious how the diet affects lipid profile while on cycle.

  • [quote=“alwayssauced” pid=‘73073’ dateline=‘1572026333’]

    I’m more interested in the self preservation aspect. I’d be fine staying around 225 with perfect blood markers. I’m curious how the diet affects lipid profile while on cycle.
    [/quote]

    Blood markers for someone eating a very healthy vegan diet low in saturated fat would be pretty good.

    Working in a lab and being able to run labs on myself anytime I wanted I ran a lot of lipid and chemistry panels on myself for free over two decades and I can say that vegan diets don’t necessarily translate into excellent lipid profiles, I found coconut and palm oil products to really elevate bad cholesterol. At the same time I found walnuts to be one of the best foods for a healthy lipid profile because of the omega 3 oils.

    However none of this was able to touch the lipid profile of me when I was averaging 450 miles a week on my road bike. I weighed about 165lbs at 6’2", I had cholesterol of 61, triglycerides below 15, my LDL was extremely low and almost all of my cholesterol was HDL. Average riding was about 2.5 hours a day as fast as I could go out on the highway, rain and sleet didn’t matter, during the winter was roller training and cyclocross.

    This is how I know cardio at high intensity for very long periods of time does things you simply can’t do with diet because my diet at this time wasn’t all that great, I mean I ate lots of carbs and lots of meat to recover. I couldn’t hardly shove in enough food.

    Basically my body was torching all of the fats in my blood, every energy source was being gobbled up.

    Now the question is do steroids make it impossible to achieve a healthy lipid profile, don’t know as of yet because it would be interesting to test someone that does gobs of cardio at high intensity and then introduce steroids and see what happens.

  • I think the biggest problem with meat from the grocery store is how poor of quality the animals are in for mass production. I wonder how big a difference eating quality farm raised meat thats free roaming, gets natural sunlight and and eat natural feed compared to eating sickly looking live stock that gets pumped up with hormones and has no natural habitat?

    These big chicken companies says there birds are hormone free but how does a bird get that massive in 6-8 weeks which is normal life span for a chicken to be slaughtered for production at a chicken plant. Its not possible. Real chicken eggs aren’t bleach white either.

  • I was vegan 6 for 6 months. Now I just prefer a low fat diet. To keep lipids in check

  • [quote=“JustaNewbie1” pid=‘73078’ dateline=‘1572031414’]

    These big chicken companies says there birds are hormone free but how does a bird get that massive in 6-8 weeks which is normal life span for a chicken to be slaughtered for production at a chicken plant. Its not possible. Real chicken eggs aren’t bleach white either.
    [/quote]

    The chickens are breed to pack on pounds as fast as possible and crammed into close quarters were they can’t hardly move so they don’t waste any calories.

    Corporate farms were designed around our ever growing population. Mom and Pops back in the day were much more common, but if we go back 50 years this country had half the population it does now and there were a lot more farmers and the people weren’t grotesquely obese like they are today.

    This isn’t so much food, as it is product and the NIH has already proven this garbage they feed the masses causes cancer. You go right down the line, they can tell you which foods are correlated with what percentage of cancer risks, it’s just not a study that many people have ever read, but most vegans have probably read it.

  • [quote=“Dexter” pid=‘73083’ dateline=‘1572034132’]
    [quote=“JustaNewbie1” pid=‘73078’ dateline=‘1572031414’]

    These big chicken companies says there birds are hormone free but how does a bird get that massive in 6-8 weeks which is normal life span for a chicken to be slaughtered for production at a chicken plant. Its not possible. Real chicken eggs aren’t bleach white either.
    [/quote]

    The chickens are breed to pack on pounds as fast as possible and crammed into close quarters were they can’t hardly move so they don’t waste any calories.

    Corporate farms were designed around our ever growing population. Mom and Pops back in the day were much more common, but if we go back 50 years this country had half the population it does now and there were a lot more farmers and the people weren’t grotesquely obese like they are today.

    This isn’t so much food, as it is product and the NIH has already proven this garbage they feed the masses causes cancer. You go right down the line, they can tell you which foods are correlated with what percentage of cancer risks, it’s just not a study that many people have ever read, but most vegans have probably read it.
    [/quote]

    It’s the same thing with every kind of food though, no?

    Every few years there’s always a back and forth about something. Take eggs for example. Every few years they say eggs are bad for us, and then a couple years later they say “oh never mind, they’re actually good for you”.

    Same thing with the pesticides they use on vegetables. Those cause cancer as well. Monsanto just got the fuck sued out of them didn’t they, or are in the process of being sued?

    The only way to know what’s in your food is to raise it, or grow it yourself and slaughter it and process it yourself. It really isn’t that hard, you just need the land, the money to feed or grow it and the knowledge of how to process it. I have a freezer full of beef and pork that would have cost me a fortune to buy at the store and I know how they were raised and what they were fed.

  • I agree with almost everything I’ve seen @“Dexter” write, but I actually don’t think that vegans have the moral high ground. For every commercial soy/wheat/corn/whatever field, THOUSANDS of animals are killed directly from farming equipment and the chemicals applied (plus runoff). Those thousands (for each field) do not get used in any way. Their bodies rot.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UvaDo-AevI

    Although I hate commercial animal farming as well (for a number of reasons), at least the animal is consumed to further human life.

    You should also consider the barren land that monoculture farming produces in a totally unsustainable way. IMO vegans are actually worse than omnivores.

    If you want to be totally ethical, hunt your own animals and grow your own produce. Otherwise, you’re sacrificing to some extent.

    Back to OP, let’s just remember that NOBODY would know the name Arnold Schwarzenegger if it weren’t for MEAT and STEROIDS. Now he’s opposed to both… food for thought…

  • https://www.beefmagazine.com/beef/why-schwarzenegger-s-game-changers-documentary-dangerous

    Arnold (and the other big names behind this movie) own major shares in plant protein companies.

    Arnold has become a sellout POS.

  • I’d say factory farming is just a symptom of the problem.

    Human population explosion in the past 100 years is turning the earth into a giant shopping mall. It’s not good for the humans or the animals.
    [hr]
    [quote=“sierrakilo” pid=‘73107’ dateline=‘1572052876’]
    https://www.beefmagazine.com/beef/why-schwarzenegger-s-game-changers-documentary-dangerous

    Arnold (and the other big names behind this movie) own major shares in plant protein companies.

    Arnold has become a sellout POS.
    [/quote]

    Arnold has always been a shrewd businessman, the man knows how to market himself, he came to this country like a lot of these immigrants do, he saw an opportunity to get paid and laid.

  • [quote=“alwayssauced” pid=‘73015’ dateline=‘1571971125’]
    Just watched a documentary the other night called “The Game Changers”. It focuses on athletes switching over to plant based diets. Have any of you done this and how has it affected your gains and blood work?
    [/quote]

    I’m not vegan but I eliminated meat from farm animals about a year, year and a half ago after seeing a youtube video of a cow playing fetch with a beach-ball. Made me uncomfortable after coming to the conclusion that cows, sheep, pigs, etc. are mammals like me and probably just about as intelligent as most dogs. I don’t pretend to pass any kind of moral judgement on those who do choose to eat them, all I can do is align my own actions with my beliefs.

    I get all my protein needs from poultry, eggs, fish and dairy products. No impact on my gains.

    I supplement with fish oil and cook with EVOO for it’s omega 3’s. I blast and cruise at 125mg test e. Lipid values didn’t change after dropping meat (still suck).

    Like everything else, outcomes will vary according to the person.

  • [quote=“dudebro73” pid=‘73194’ dateline=‘1572192640’]

    I get all my protein needs from poultry, eggs, fish and dairy products. No impact on my gains.

    I supplement with fish oil and cook with EVOO for it’s omega 3’s. I blast and cruise at 125mg test e. Lipid values didn’t change after dropping meat (still suck).

    Like everything else, outcomes will vary according to the person.
    [/quote]

    Poultry, eggs, and certainly fish carry all the building blocks you could possibly need.

    I’d say salmon is probably the most nutritious protein source on the planet, it’s just too dang expensive to eat all the time.

    Can’t say I’m a fan of dairy though, mucous production and if you’ve ever been to a massive dairy farm, it’s the most disgusting smell outside of pig farms that I’ve ever encountered.

  • Haven’t gone vegetarian/vegan, but it’s important to notice the strong bias of the documentary. For every elite veg athlete, there’s many more that eat normal/balanced diets that are as, if not more, successful. Also, diets are heavily personalized and maybe for their body’s it actually feels better. Not everybody can say that though.

  • [quote=“nightrider300” pid=‘73474’ dateline=‘1572453839’]
    Haven’t gone vegetarian/vegan, but it’s important to notice the strong bias of the documentary. For every elite veg athlete, there’s many more that eat normal/balanced diets that are as, if not more, successful. Also, diets are heavily personalized and maybe for their body’s it actually feels better. Not everybody can say that though.
    [/quote]

    For bodybuilding it’s pretty simple, animal protein increases Igf-1. You simply can’t get the kind of growth on veggie protein sources that you can with animal based.

    The only real question is do we practice ethical farming where we try to give the animals a quality life and do we make the slaughter as painless and stress free as possible, or do we go the current direction which is basically a gulag for animals, load them into cattle cars without food and water like Nazis and cattle prod them to the deaths. This kind of corporate farming practice that is industrial won’t last forever, western society has always gone through periods of enlightenment where they finally admit the past was wrong and correct for the future.

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